Salsa City Forum » News and Chat » How good is Salsa in Cardiff?

Andy... Thanks for responding. I re-iterate that your comments were appreciated. However, can I correct you on one point. What actually sparked off this debate [and I should know, I started it] was not that people in Cardiff couldn't do a CBL [I'll clarify this point later] but that a, male dancers were not very good at leading [in fact I mentioned, couldn't lead - a bit harsh with hindsight, but not far off the mark] b, ladies were not able to follow [understandable when you consider men can't lead] and c, not being able to keep 'timing' [this was aimed more at the men [for obvious reasons] Reference to the CBL was not just about being able to do a basic cross body lead. It was about the cross body lead style of salsa, [New York style] as opposed to the Cuban style of salsa. I should have clarified this in more detail. Perhaps you would like to comment on this?

I don't think running salsa classes for potential salsa teachers has actually been helpful. It might have assisted you in terms of filling in for those classes that you couldn't take i.e. succesion planning, etc but aren't you just creating salsa teachers in your own image? Andy Witt's clones...?? There is a staleness about the salsa scene in Cardiff. New blood is needed... Not more of the same.

Bringing in new teachers is important. It doesn't have to be the likes of Susana Montero [who I consider to be the best teacher i.e. breaking down and explaining moves] every time. There are less known teachers about that are very good. [Perhaps you would consider taking on myself and Mr Wizzy. Unfortunately we haven't decided yet which one is going to wear the trousers and which one the lipstick.]

el Diabs baby... perhaps you should read my earlier posts again. I have never set myself as the so called 'spokesmen' as you so eloquently put it. Every opinion I have expressed is that of my own. Although my views are probably as representative as yours are. You'll probably be surprised just how many people detest smoking. They go to salsa clubs in spite of the smoking, not because of it. I can't wait for smoking to banned in public places!! That's one part of a so called latin culture that a lot people will be glad to see the back of.

It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, MrChips. Presumably the ladies who dance with you regularly are excellent dancers because they have been exposed to so much of your enlightening influence. So just dance with them and let the rest of us stumble on in our ignorant way. You've said your piece and garnered plenty of polite and thoughtful response. You're starting (starting!?) to repeat yourself now so I'm going to close this thread, just in case people are getting bored with you.

Thread reopened by special request of el Diablito.

Thank you for that Hugh, for it better to light a candle than to curse the darkness...

Good for you Hugh... You're a star *

Sadly there may be a short delay before the repost, as the response I'd compiled has been lost... not because I'd deleted it on purpose you understand, but that my computer closed down, as a result of the power cut, which was caused by the faulty central heating boiler, which went tits up as a result of my having welted it with a mallet... For some reason I was a little annoyed about something!!!

Happy Days

Good debate this...

Regarding smoking I am 100% prepared to eat humble pie and say that after a hardcore drinking session in Scotland (where there is a non-smoking ban in operation in pubs / clubs) It was FANTASTIC to not go home smelling like an ashtray! Saying that, I am not fussed by people smoking and don’t have a problem being around smoke / Smokers... People have to put up with my bad habits (Farting / Belching / Cheesy Feet / driving a gas guzzler / eating Red Meat / violent behaviour when p*ssed) and occasional passive smoking ain’t gonna kill you - fact! So I still think that it’s an insignificant problem not worth winging about in a SALSA FORUM.

Regarding Andy’s Teaching course... I have my doubts but didn’t attend so can’t comment. What I can say for sure is that he will never have generated Carbon Copies - why? Because people are different! I’ve met Andy on a number of occasions and he is a charming, funny, easy-to-get-along-with guy. YOU CAN’T TEACH THAT.

My negative thoughts about the course are if Andy taught a group of SADDO’S, then they’ll always be SADDO’S, just now they are SADDO’S who can dance and, possible, explain salsa steps to others... Not necessarily teach - big difference.

On the flip side, having people who teach the SAME STEPS the SAME WAY might be a good thing. I’ve learnt 4 / 5 ways of leading a CBL depending on who explained it to me... If your new on the scene and experience that, which method do you decide on - DECISION OVERLOAD!!! Atleast with one method, you get continuity from lessons and less confusion.

Teaching... Not for me, not got enough patients and am not good enough.

I think Andy did a sterling job of answering your initial points CHIPPO, and he is a teacher (with respect, you’re not) You’re talking about people not doing a CBL propperly NY style... Well no bloody wonder! It’s ON TWO and people know how I feel about that!!! Hugh can highlight a whole conversation about ON TWO salsa if you want.

To be honest, I don’t think you have re-worded you initial points at all and Andy answered everything posed to him by yourself, I think you’ve asked brand new questions which cast an entirely different light on the subject... Maybe it’s time to find a new subject to discuss (NOT BLOODY SMOKING or ON TWO)

Better sign off now as I’m sure Steve “El Diabolito” West has another ESSAY on route :-)

WIZZY FOR PRIME MINISTER!!!

With respect Mr Wizzy. I don't think Andy did answer on my original questions I posted. [check my original post then compare it with he said] He stated Cardiff had an healthy salsa scene, plenty of classes, every night of the week in fact, also a wide range in the standard of dancing he also mentioned his qualifications, which i must admit is very impressive.

As to cross body lead question... I never mentioned dancing on the 2. New York style is a generic term. If i was going to discuss dancing on the 2, I personally would call it, Mambo on the 2.

As for being shown 4, 5 ways of leading a cross body lead. I find that somewhat extraordinary. Perhaps you would like to expand on that?

Chippy...

My view is not that people go to Salsa clubs because of smoking, but that smoking is (at least, at present) a part of CLUB CULTURE and most definitely a part of Latin culture. As is drinking, socialising, flirting with people, listening to and feeling the music and last but not least dancing Salsa. In fact, the thing that seems to be niggling you most in this thread i.e. Lessons and the teaching thereof, is (I think it’s fair to say) the most peculiar of all the elements of club culture and in fact, is something you wouldn’t ordinarily expect to find in the culture of nightclubs.

I’m sure you’ve noticed and would agree that most Latinos wouldn’t even bother with lessons. The reason we attend them, (at least this is true for most of us) is in order to connect with Latin culture through learning the dance.

So as I asked in a previous post, in answer to your point about a good workout at the gym, are you heading for a ‘good workout’ or for a ‘good night out’ when you go to a Salsa event? Because, if for you it is only about the lessons and only about the dancing, then you would be better off steering clear of nightclubs... But if you insist on turning up at a night club, then it’s better to accept that there will be people there with a different perspective than you and learn to live & let live.

You may cherry pick what part of Latin culture it is you wish to participate in and of course that is your prerogative, but please allow others to choose theirs.

There are some interesting threads both in this forum and in the Salsajive forum with regard to smoking, freedom of choice and the health & safety issue around that. Perhaps this would be a better place for you to answer some of the questions raised in them regarding your view on that subject.

But just as it has been pointed out in those threads, a nightclub is not a public space, but a private place where you pay an entry fee and you are allowed to enter under rules of entry.

If anyone wants another bite at the smoking issue, please add your comments to the smoking thread. (I might have another go myself, later.)

Many comments have been made during this thread on the quality of teaching in Cardiff. Also about different teachers people have come across in different areas - and how people have been taught the same move in different ways. Do you think styles of teaching and maybe salsa are peculiar to certain areas?

Do teachers adapt to suit the dancing in that area or (as a good teacher should!) to suit the participants in his/her class?
I feel that when teaching anything the best teachers do not just impart knowledge/skills to their pupils - but give a bit of themselves also - they interact with the class participants - and most importantly encourage and help to boost self-esteem.

The worst salsa experience I have had is when I had just started dancing and began to feel a little confidence - a gentleman(!) asked me to dance and then proceeded to do as many moves as he knew - even though it was obvious I could not do many. Instead of adapting to suit my inexperience and at least allow me to enjoy the dance he continued to the end of the song and tutted at me throughout! This really knocked my confidence for some time.

Although I have never attended a lesson where this has happened - due to the levelling of ability I have certainly observed that some teachers are better at teaching than others. Afterall excellent dancers won't necessarily make excellent teachers!

The best teachers encourage you and ultimately make you feel good! They are friendly and approachable. Maybe this is another reason why Andy is so sucessful!