Salsa City Forum » Salsa Music and Dance » Leading ladies

Thanks. The only thing I'd disagree with is to say that it's almost never the lady's fault. There are one or two women in Cardiff who are completely unleadable - they just don't understand what following is or are incapable of doing it. Get one of them onto the dance floor and it's like juggling a handgrenade with the pin out. I saw one of them dancing with a very experienced and controlled male partner and she managed to kick the legs away from under another woman. The only thing to do if you get one of these is to steer her into a corner away from other dancers and hope that you both survive the dance with nobody getting hurt!

Sounds like it is the old story of not being allowed to dance salsa till you can dance salsa. This seems to be endemic in the Cardiff salsa scene. When I first moved to Cardiff I asked an experienced lady for a dance. She agreed and whilst I was just doing the basic moves - turns, cross body leads, to find out what she could do, she just got bored, didn't bother trying to hide it, and couldn't even be bothered dancing in time. Since then I have only danced with beginners, and avoided the Cardiff Clique almost entirely.

When I was in another city, there was a break between the beginners and the intermediate lessons when 2 tracks were played. Experienced dancers would always ask any new people for a dance, no matter how difficult they were to dance with. The blokes got used to leading. The girls got used to be being lead and not knowing the routine before hand, and the new people were encouraged. In Cardiff you see experienced blokes not doing the beginner's class because it is below them, even though half the ladies don't have a partner.

Maybe a bit more encouragement of the beginners to dance correctly would eliminate the problems above at the source.

I have to say that your experience doesn't match mine - I think you've let one bad experience put you off dancing with some very congenial partners. You get the odd diva in most places, but I've generally found Cardiff friendlier and less cliquey than some other places I've danced. (for example, one teacher in Bath quite bluntly told a friend of mine that he wouldn't dance with her because she wasn't good enough).

BTW I often dance with beginners, and my comments were directed at people who don't consider themselves to be beginners (they join in intermediate and advanced classes). But I would agree with you that some teachers need to pay more attention to teaching correct dancing techniques.

Just to add to the 'men are from Mars, women are from Venus' debate, I've been told by women that I'm not doing a move properly so it's not all one-sided. As for unleadable women, I can count them on the fingers of one hand, whether it's someone whose arms are so tense it's like arm wrestling a miner or others with floppy arms. But then again none of us are perfect or above being given some friendly. It's criticism we can do without.

A very late reply i know but i have been on the cardiff scene for a few years and do think there is a clique. I have been a dedicated pupil and can count on 1 hand (well 1/2 a hand) the number of occassions a teacher has asked me to dance. Aha! but did you ask them i hear you cry - no because you can feel quite intimidated by them. Also I will gladly dance with beginner or advanced alike I will always be friendly and try to have FUN - but some people take it far too seriously and I only refuse if somebody has made me feel uncomfortable - eyes down the top scenario. Actually i don't even refuse these "gentlemen" just nip off to the ladies quick or avoid eye contact. There is no need for anybody to be rude!!! But even a word of encouragemnt from a teacher or advanced dancer would be appreciated afterall they have taught me but not one of them has told me i have improved!!!!!!

Hi Twink

Don't be too concerned with dancing with the teachers. Their job is to make their students competent to dance with each other, not just with them. They have a lot of demands on them and, as they say on Springer, "They're not all that."

If you feel you don't have an "in" with what you see as the salsa clique, simply create your own clique. All you need is two or three guys you can count on to dance with you and who can count on you to dance with them, and another girlie to gossip with in the ladies', and, voilà! Instant clique.

I'm new to salsa. I started before Christmas at David Lloyd whee they have lessons for their members

In December we went to the "Monk" where the instructor there was dancing with everybody.

Maybe you should try going there

Some teachers are much better than others at dancing with their students. Of course they shouldn't have to dance with beginners all night. But I can understand women being frustrated by teachers who only dance with beginners if they're pretty or talented, and make excuses when asked for dances by people they don't want to dance with.

I have to agree with Twink about the clique in Cardiff, thankfully (I think?!)I appear to have become a small part of it, however I do try to stay on the side lines and speak and dance with everyone and anyone.

However, over the few months that I have been dancing, the scene REALLY has changed. Since Dale, Paul and Thano (think he might be back now though) have left teaching, there is 'NO' chance of being able to dance with a teacher unless you bite the bullet and ask, and even then they are reluctant. (Probably scared that we're too good and will show them up ;)

Seriously though, I truly miss the Mondays/Wednesdays in 'Life'. Both Paul and Dale would literally have a few dances with each lady; plus Thano would do this too in 'O'Neills' just not to quite the same degree.

In truth though Paul is the ONLY teacher who I know has made a true effort to dance with every lady. Although he has only put in a rare appearance, since taking a back seat, when he does go out on an evening he will take part in a class if they are short of Leaders and yet again does every woman justice by sweeping her off her feet.

One thing to add to this though is that 'you are not missing out on anything by not dancing with a teacher'. There are some EXCELLENT Leaders in Cardiff who are not teachers and they always keep me more than satisfied.

However, it would be really great if John, Andy or even Mike took the time to dance with someone other than their girlfriends/close female friends.

Bailamos I hope you are not insuating that i am ugly and untalented!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now I really am beginning to feel paranoid - i'll be the one in salsa with the bag over my head.