Salsa City Forum » Salsa Music and Dance » Leading ladies

Isn't it irritating when you're in a class, you think you've just got the sequence, and the woman who's partnering you leads you through it rather than waiting for you to lead?

Consequence: you don't learn what the sequence feels like to lead and she won't learn what it feels like to follow. And feel is what it's all about when you're on the dancefloor, not just getting through the moves. Complete waste of time for both parties.

I understand why women do it - because so many men in classes haven't learnt to lead at all - but at least give us a chance to show we can do it!

It certainly is. I usually find a terse "Don't lead!" will do the trick. If she takes umbrage, at least I know not to ask her to dance in future.

There's probably a 2000 word rant on this subject somewhere on Salsamafia.
I guess its unnatural for a woman to wait to be led when she knows what's coming, but us men need to know we're leading something properly. It's possible to finish a class thinking you've got a routine perfectly and then it goes pear-shaped when you dance with someone who didn't do the class.

If a friendly word doesn't work, an alternative is to switch the routine around a little so your partner doesn't know what's coming and she has no choice but to follow you. Of course, it also provides those with memories like goldfish with a ready made excuse for doing something unexpected. This is easier to do if the teacher gives you enough time to practice before adding more moves.

Add an extra mambo or take one out, dummy a CBL, switch two moves that start and end in the same place. As long as you're careful not to disrupt the flow of the routine which the teacher has agonised for months in putting together, they hopefully shouldn't be too annoyed.

For goodness sake guys - wind your necks in! If you all learnt to lead properly in the first place (and in time with the music) and lightened up a bit - maybe it shouldn't be such a problem. Isn't salsa just a bit of fun. You'd all be sorry if all us ladies stayed away for an evening! Then what would you do?

Now it's the "sisters turn to moan"

Girls... don't you hate it when

1) Men stare down your tops instead of at your faces
2) They dance off time of the music
3) They swing you around like a bag of potatoes
4) They dip you without permission
5) They dance too "close"
6) They're too busy looking at other ladies instead of the one they're dancing with

Now... Gentlemen - stop tarring us all with the same brush or we'll do the same back to you!

Have you considered the possibility that the fun for some men is in swinging you around like a bag of potatoes? Not me obviously - Tarzan apparently has hair, which puts me in the clear.

Of course we'd be sorry if you didn't turn up. For one thing, we'd probably have to do shines for an hour and a half. How scary is that?

Hmmmm - that might be worth watching :-)

Hugh, have you ever come across a woman who doesn't 'take umbrage' at being given 'terse' commands? I think you'll probably find that you'll get a pretty dusty response if you do 'ask her for a dance in future' .

That's the wittiest post I've ever seen on this site,
Respect.
Who are you, so I can buy you a drink!

Glad you found it amusing, but I think I'll stick to being anonymous, thanks - Tarzan may be a dodgy dancer but he's taller than me, and judging by the impact of the collisions he engineers he's quite strong!

I was actually intending to make a serious point about the ways in which some men find it acceptable to behave towards women in salsa. Women have to dance with enough well-meaning but hamfisted frogs in order to find the occasional prince - they shouldn't have to put up with rudeness as well.

The other thing that annoys me is seeing men who I know to be crap dancers stopping a dance with a much better partner and explaining to her in patronising detail how to do the move. If you'd led it right in the first place she would have followed it! If a woman doesn't get my lead first time I'll try and improve the lead and then repeat it. If she really doesn't know it and can't follow it, then I'll explain it if she clearly wants me to.

Of course, the women who are worth their weight in gold are the ones who can articulate clearly how the lead can be improved, but the sort of men I'm talking about wouldn't be willing to listen. One of them was actually heard to say that 'women don't like dancing with me because I'm too good and I show them up'. Nothing to do with a violent lead, a lack of charm, and a tendency to stick to partners like a leech...

Bailamos, I respect your anonymity but it's a shame because you seem to be one of the few male dancers in Cardiff who seem to understand the responsibility of leading in a social dance & you deserve recognition.
A man has the advantages of choosing whom he dances with, picking which moves to execute and choreographing the dance. In return for this he must accept that if anything goes wrong it is HIS fault. He should apologise to the lady and carry on, adjusting his lead, choice of moves etc to suit the lady he is dancing with. You can always identify the really good leaders because they are never short of partners. Indeed, some never have to ask for a dance because the women will be asking them. (bastards!)
To summarise:
It is the man's job to make the woman look as good a dancer as she possibly can be. (let's face it, a woman will always look better dancing than a man will anyway, because they have the right equipment, not to mention grace, style & sex appeal).
You should never try to teach/correct on the dance floor unless the lady asks you to.
Your lead should be gentle but definite,
You should be aware of other dancers and ensure that you partner is never in any danger (even from the likes of tarzan!).
If anything goes awry, whether a collision or a mis-move IT IS NEVER THE LADY'S FAULT!
If the lady doesn't follow a particular lead ask her permission before trying again.

And you're right, it seems to be the really crap dancers who try and blame the lady if something goes wrong. By the way, I still owe you a drink.