Salsa City Forum » Salsa Music and Dance » How to lead spins?

carlito999
Member

Hey all. I’d love a little help here!
So. Now I’m getting dances with followers who can do multiple turns/spins - great - and thanks girls for your patience.
But it all gets a bit loose because I’m not sure how to signal its one or two turns and how to stop turns where I want.
Advice from both leading and following point of view VERY welcome. Thanks

Welsh Wizard
Member

Hey Carlito... excellent question... and something so many leaders are either never taught or simply just slip into bad habits and forget, and so many followers never know where the follow should be. At our classes at No 10 myself and Lisa are sticklers for technique, and explaining the leads for guys and follow for girls.

It goes like this... generally...

Single spin the lead is on the 5 or very strictly speaking the 4 coming onto 5.

Double spin the lead is on 5 and 7 (or again very strictly speaking the 4/5, 6/7 )

Triple spins are 3,5, and 7... (or very strictly speaking the 2/3 4/5 6/7)

Hope that makes sense. As for stopping turns it depends on your next move... usually you should bring the hand down... now ladies this means the guy has stopped wanting you to spin... so no self leading and trying to throw another one in!

If your next move after the spin means you need to keep your left hand up the technique is to use your elbow... (no not in her face guys! )... but to use your elbow as she turns for the final spin that you want, keep it up at a right angle and her elbow should come against yours effectively acting as a barrier to stop her trying to self lead or misread a lead and sneak another turn in. (you gotta watch these ladies they love to sneak another one in given half the chance... ;-) ).

Apols if it’s not all that clear... little tricky to explain using text, but when you see me out and about feel free to come over and I can demonstrate.

Have fun with those doubles and triples... and of course to be fair don’t forget to throw a couple of your own mens doubles and triples in too ;-)... and don’t forget to spot folks! :-)

WW.

Welsh Wizard
Member

P.s you’d be suprised how many teachers actually teach it wrong, or avoid teaching where the leads, follow and the technique are just because they don’t actually know!!! None that I know of round here I hasten to add... but just in case anyone from afar is reading this and thinking... ‘hmm... that’s not where I was taught that the leads are... ’. Assuming they were even taught the leads, follow and technique for any kind of salsa move! Lot of cowboys out there! :-)

WW.

Steve

Beg to differ with the “Wizard” - when triple spinning your partner -it is far easier to do the spins on 5,6 and 7 - perhaps I am one of your cowboys!!

Welsh Wizard
Member

Steve... lol... far from it matey you know full well you are no cowboy! That was actually a test to see who would spot it. ;-)! Or perhaps more honestly it was a typo on my part, he said rather embarrassingly... believe it or not when I was typing that I was thinking of one rather dodgy cowboy class (forever a blot in my memory) I had been to where the lead was taught on the 3 for everything mainly cos the teacher didn’t have a clue... yes... you are quite correct the triple is is 5,6,7. And that’s the way I teach it... honest guv!

WW puts his Texan 10 gallon hat on and shouts ‘Yeeehaaar!’, ;-)

WW.

carlito999
Member

Thanks for that guys!

Brendan
Member

I’d probably add that you should also slow down towards the end of leading spins rather than just bring your arm down suddenly (say during the last half of a rotation). The follower needs to know that you’re trying to get them to stop rather than leading a one-up, one down or something like that. The arm catch thing works but again it’s worth trying to bring the follower to a gradual halt rather than a sudden stop or they may feel as if their arms are being wrenched out.

Brendan

Andy Witt

Actually you can both be right...

Spinning an essay on…...

There are a number of different timing methods used for multiple spins, taught by many big name teachers. A lot depends on how many spins you’re about to do and the preperation step required.

A Mambo turn ie a single turn from a mambo step consists of a forward step on the 5, a step onto the right foot on 6, pivoting and bringing the feet together on 7. This means the actual rotation takes place during the 6/7.

The lead consists of the leader drawing the arm up on the 3/4 and guiding the partner around on the 5/6/7 allowing the hand to drop down to center on the 7. At all times the hand should stay in front of the follower.

On multiple spins it is dependent on the number of spins required and also occasionally dependent on the step following the spin.

Essentially the spinner requires a preperation step and 1 beat per spin.

On a double spin the prep is forwards on the 5 pushing off ‘landing’ on the 6, and pushing and ‘landing’ again on the 7.

This can be transposed to a triple spin in the same way.
Prep forward on the 5 pushing off ‘landing’ on the 6, pushing and ‘landing’ on the 7 and again on the 8. Breaking back on the 1.

However this causes problems if you want to do 4 spins as you run out of time. So very often for 3 or 4 spins the prep step is taken a beat or two earlier. So the prep step is on the 4 turning on the 5/6/7/8.

A few places teach the prep on the 3 starting the turn on 4/5/6/7 this however requires a different spinning technique and is actually a borrowed technique from on2 dancers where it works very effectively, however if dancing on1 it is not as effective and is responsible for a lot of dancers looking like spinning tops. Ie all they are doing is setting themselves up for spins and not dancing their basic steps. That however is a completely different subject... :)

With regards to the lead of multiple spins just prior to the prep step a compression block is required, this means the hand comes up in front palms faced away with a slight compression between the two. It is best to practice this initially on a right to right hand lead.
If doing a double spin have the lead in place on the 4 so the follower knows that the 5 is her prep step.

Followers technique - The leading hand should be in front of the forehead with the arm in a comfortable L shape. It is important that the hand stays away from the head at all times and the elbow stays down. As compression is applied you can use this frame to help with your momentum.
Always spin one at a time, don’t try to anticipate a double or a triple etc. Otherwise you will miss the leads and you’re technique will develop into just being able to do a double etc and you’ll get caught out when more spins are being lead.

Leaders’ technique - Again the leading hand should stay in front of your partners head at all times, however the leaders elbow should raise out to the side close to the same height as the hand, providing a pushing feeling. This acts as your on/off switch.
When leading the spin the ‘pulse’ of the push is at the leaders’ 12pm position when the hand is furthest away from you. The signal for a spin to continue is as simple as maintaining the hand and elbow in the up compression position.
In order to signal the end of the spins soften the last pulse and immediately after the pulse allow the elbow to relax downwards followed by the hand and keep the hand slightly to the right providing a very slight compression at shoulder height for the follower, providing her with a little bit of help in slowing the moment.

A few tips for the spinner. Spinning is about controlling momentum and balance. When spinning you try to send the momentum into your center rather than away from it.
A simple exercise in momentum is to sit in an office chair and spin around if you put your arms and legs out you will slow down as you bring them into the center you will speed up.
From a practical point of view, keep your legs bent and pull in your lower stomach. This will help control the most common problems of loss of posture and balance.
The prep step is a very small step forward on the left foot keeping most of your weight on your rear spinning leg.
Momentum is provided by the torque of the upper body, the leading hand rotating the shoulder. And by pushing with the prep (left) foot. As you push and start to turn the final ‘flick’ of your push will coinside with the ‘12pm’ pulse from the leader.
During the spin keep the knees and feet close together.
To push off again into your next spin allow your prep foot to come slightly forwards again and repeat.
To stop spinning transfer your weight onto the prep (left) foot. Again keeping the knees together and pulling in the stomach.

I hope this makes sense and actually helps, as always go and ask your teacher during or after a class, I and any teacher I know will be more than happy to help.

Just a quick point, the techniques described are not some arbitrary method I’ve developed but standard methods taught across many different dances throughout the world.

Lisa

Very interesting!!

I’m not gonna start on this whole topic as I won’t stop but from a follower’s perspective, the lead for spins is crucial... particularly doubles and triples!

Basically it should be clear and the momentum should lessen NOT speed up as you are spinning where the guy is trying to force u round too quickly.

My biggest pet peeve is being led into a triple on count 5... I should know what’s coming from a) the momentum of the lead and b) the timing of the lead. I.e as a follower for a double I want a lead on 4/5 and 6/7 and for a triple 3/4, 5/6 and 7/8. (This would be easier to actually demonstrate)

It can confusing for a sollower if the lead using a lot of momentum with the arm prep and then only leads a single turn. Remember guys we follow your hand so if it feels like you’re preparing us for more than one spin that’s what we’ll do, unless otherwise stated.

Please don’t try and force us round guys, be clear yes but don’t stir us, this can not only result in injury (my shoulder’s never been the same) but also is a guaranteed way to throw us off balance too thus making it sooo much harder to spin.

Everyone does have slightly different technique yes but as a followe it’s amazing how much easier spins are when the lead is there and leads will prob be amazed at how many spins a follower can actually do.

Everything Andy said about posture etc is all really important and of course spotting!

One of the best things for followers is to just practice!! And leads, practice too. I’m more than happy to practice with any lead who wants to aswell...! I’m always happy to practice spinning!! :)

Hope that makes sense!?

Lisa

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